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Scholar
Original Poster
#1 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 7:48 PM
Default Spanking/hitting children for discipline?
What do people think of spanking or hitting your children as discipline?

My sister and father, like many, thought it was illegal in the US. However, if you look it up, it's only illegal in Thirteen Colonies, Hawaii, and California. (ABC says it's illegal for all states, but it's actually still allowed in all the other states, just not the ones I've listed.) Many are trying to start a movement and "bring" this type of discipline back. This is common practice even in other parts of the world, like Asia (not sure about Europe and Africa, but probably).

There's probably a bunch of other sources, like study journals and stuff, but they all say basically what I'm saying.

In my opinion, it's just wrong. My parents did hit me and my sister for punishment when we were younger — somehow, they dropped it once we reached high school, but "they're living in the wrong state" — but it's not something I believe in and would practice.

As I was telling my Chinese Australian friend, "You're not teaching the kid anything, just teaching them to hate you even more."
He said, "Yes, I agree, however... it depends on the kid."

The kid becomes afraid of the physical pain, not necessarily of the parent itself. Opponents argue that it's supposed to make the kid think about what he or she has done, but do you really think a four year old would seriously be up to thinking (or even remember) wrongdoing? I didn't. This is the same guy whose father gave him a bloody nose and ruined his teeth at eleven because he told his father to lower the volume (on the phone) while he was doing homework one day. My sister said, "Okay, it does teach the kids straight off the bat. However, you don't want to be killing them. That is a little extreme."

Thoughts? Comments?
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Sim Princess in Pink
#2 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 8:01 PM
I have a daughter who I don't 'Spank' but I smack her hand when she is doing something she isn't suppose to. I warn her first to give her a chance by saying no, then warn her again if she does it again, then smack her hand.

My parents did about the same to me as I was growing up, and I truly believe that tapping and smacking on the hand is completely acceptable. When my mum use to do it to me, it was the only thing that would stop me from being naughty.

This is not to say however, that I believe in other types of smacking. Smacking on the head is DISGUSTING behaviour and no parent should do that to their child, if not just for the fact it is dangerous. I think that smacking the back of the legs is ok if thats what some people want to do but I don't do it personally.

I think there is a difference between smacking and full out pelting. When you smack a child it should only be hard enough to get their attention as to what you are angry at, nothing abusive or violent.

Please, Call Me Lou :D
Theorist
#3 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 8:02 PM
What are the alternatives? "timeouts"? Those work. NOT.

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Undead Molten Llama
#4 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 8:05 PM
I'd say that it depends on how it's done. Random smacking kids around for no reason accomplishes nothing. Spanking done in anger on the parent's part also accomplishes nothing. I also believe that it's an effective/appropriate punishment only within a certain age range. If they're too young, they have no clue about cause and effect, actions and consequences and bad decisions; all they know is that they're uncomfortable and they don't understand why. If they're too old...Well, particularly with kids of the opposite gender from the parent doing the spanking, I think it puts bad ideas into their heads. The cut-off varies in my mind, but my daughter, at nine, is approaching the threshold although, honestly, I've only ever had to spank her once, and that was maybe three years ago or so. My son got his last spanking when he was 10; he's 14 now. After that cut-off age, other forms of discipline are far more effective.

That said, I spanked both my children, but not until they were old enough (around 4 or 5 or so) to understand exactly why they were receiving that punishment. They were also warned at least once to stop the behavior that they knew would earn a spanking. Overall, my household has clearly-defined rules with clearly-defined consequences of breaking those rules. I am not arbitrary, and I am consistent, and IMO those are the keys to effective discipline. If a rule is broken regardless of the circumstances, the prescribed consequence ensue, on schedule and with no surprises on anyone's part. The consequences used to involve spanking in the more extreme cases, still does for my daughter. As they get older, different consequences go into effect, reflective of their age/maturity level and the things that I know will affect them and that they will care about.

IMO, it's the people who spank randomly and in anger that do damage. Otherwise, it can be a very effective deterrent/disciplinary measure.

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Field Researcher
#5 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 8:07 PM
I think it all depends on the parent and the child. Some parents just like to beat their kids and when questioned they will use the excuse that they were disciplining them.

Personally, as a child if I did something wrong like bad mouth at my mother or be really really mean to my sister my dad would chase me up to my bedroom threatening to hit me and sometimes he did get to me before I got to my room. Now my dad is not a violent man at all and I have an extremely great relationship with him, he's more like a friend than a dad so I can't say that him threatening to hit me or actually hitting me made me hate him. Infact its the opposite, The experience of being chased or hit was not pleasant so I behaved as I knew the consequence, so it really did not happen frequently. Through my parents being strict with me and me knowing what behaviour was acceptable I learned to respect my parents and generally get on well with them.
My parents did not smack me for the little things they just told me off, but when I did something really bad they would smack me, not so much I would brusie but enough to feel it. I think spanking or whatever you want to call it shouldn't be used frequently but only to punish really bad unacceptable behaviour AND if the kid knows why they are getting spanked. Don't just walk up to them and spank them but explain it aswell. Because some kids don't understand right and wrong and this needs to be explained.

The problem with a lot of kids that misbehave all starts at home where they can get away with anything they want because they know they won't get punished. A lot of friends I had at school who would misbehave had parents who didn't really care when their kids were misbehaving at home and did not discipline them, resulting in the kid not knowing right or wrong.

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Scholar
Original Poster
#6 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 8:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by davious
What are the alternatives? "timeouts"? Those work. NOT.


I've seen people manage pretty well without the spanking; it seems like, "either way, you're stuck". I forgot to add that. Some people shouldn't of been parents, but as my sister says, "Don't hate the cause or problem. It is what it has become. LIVE WITH IT."

My parents have never grounded me so I don't know how effective that is.
My family's rude words did hit me hard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sammann89
I think it all depends on the parent and the child. Some parents just like to beat their kids and when questioned they will use the excuse that they were disciplining them.

Personally, as a child if I did something wrong like bad mouth at my mother or be really really mean to my sister my dad would chase me up to my bedroom threatening to hit me and sometimes he did get to me before I got to my room. Now my dad is not a violent man at all and I have an extremely great relationship with him, he's more like a friend than a dad so I can't say that him threatening to hit me or actually hitting me made me hate him. Infact its the opposite, The experience of being chased or hit was not pleasant so I behaved as I knew the consequence, so it really did not happen frequently. Through my parents being strict with me and me knowing what behaviour was acceptable I learned to respect my parents and generally get on well with them.
My parents did not smack me for the little things they just told me off, but when I did something really bad they would smack me, not so much I would brusie but enough to feel it. I think spanking or whatever you want to call it shouldn't be used frequently but only to punish really bad unacceptable behaviour AND if the kid knows why they are getting spanked. Don't just walk up to them and spank them but explain it aswell. Because some kids don't understand right and wrong and this needs to be explained.


I agree with this, even though me and my parents don't have a healthy relationship. I learned really quickly on to just listen or else they'd come and "hit" us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LouBarratt88
I have a daughter who I don't 'Spank' but I smack her hand when she is doing something she isn't suppose to. I warn her first to give her a chance by saying no, then warn her again if she does it again, then smack her hand.

My parents did about the same to me as I was growing up, and I truly believe that tapping and smacking on the hand is completely acceptable. When my mum use to do it to me, it was the only thing that would stop me from being naughty.

This is not to say however, that I believe in other types of smacking. Smacking on the head is DISGUSTING behaviour and no parent should do that to their child, if not just for the fact it is dangerous. I think that smacking the back of the legs is ok if thats what some people want to do but I don't do it personally.

I think there is a difference between smacking and full out pelting. When you smack a child it should only be hard enough to get their attention as to what you are angry at, nothing abusive or violent.


That's like my grandparents, who would bump their knuckles on our heads if we did wrong, but nothing beyond that.

TBH, the guy basically suffered an unreported assault.
Lab Assistant
#7 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 8:14 PM
Here in Germany spanking is generally discouraged and indeed illegal since 2000 (which I didn't even know until right now :blush.
The consensus here is that spanking is less effective but rather damaging for the kid, and from personal experience (I have been spanked a few times as a kid) I tend to agree. Would be interesting to see any statistical data on it (probably hard to get unbiased).

And yes, there are indeed working alternatives to spanking (sufficiently harsh words, grounding, withdrawal of favours,...).
Lab Assistant
#8 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 8:14 PM
There's a world of difference between discipline and child abuse but some people can't see the difference. I'm all for disciplining children; my mother severely punished me when I was a child and I didn't grow up violent or developed a complex and I don't hate my mother either for hitting me.

Sammann89 pretty much said what I would have.

Oh, one thing, they used to spank in schools where I live, now they've changed it so only the headmaster can spank students.
Scholar
Original Poster
#9 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 8:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CuddlesdaTeddlyBear
There's a world of difference between discipline and child abuse but some people can't see the difference. I'm all for disciplining children; my mother severely punished me when I was a child and I didn't grow up violent or developed a complex and I don't hate my mother either for hitting me.

Sammann89 pretty much said what I would have.

Oh, one thing, they used to spank in schools where I live, now they've changed it so only the headmaster can spank students.


This is funny, because the guy wasn't a delinquent at all; he went to an elitist high school (deemed "one of the best schools in Australia") and was the only child of Mainland Chinese immigrants. He just got really unlucky, I guess.

See, it really depends on the person. You learned from it, but many didn't. I don't know any who did.

I can't seem to think of one culture who didn't do that — the degree of severity certainly varies — and no one is free from it. My sister said, "Being Christian does not excuse you from anything along physical punishment or abuse. The Holy Book did not extend to covering those."

They did used to spank kids flat out in American high schools in 1800s and early 1900s, though. It was also common practice as my dad grew up in Saigon, Vietnam, along with scrubbing chalkboards and cleaners; Vietnamese men encouraged beating their own wives along with kids, but that's another story.
Field Researcher
#10 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 8:22 PM
When my parents were at school the cane was still in use as a punishment, and my mum who now works at a school, says that when she was at school kids were generally well behaved because they knew they did not want to be hit with the cane, however now-a-days kids misbehave at school because they know the teachers can't do anything about it really. I think thats kinda true.

My Sims 3 Creations
Nothing matters. We're essentially all highly evolved monkeys clinging to a rock that's falling through space and the rock itself is dying. Frankie Boyle.
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Scholar
Original Poster
#11 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 8:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammann89
When my parents were at school the cane was still in use as a punishment, and my mum who now works at a school, says that when she was at school kids were generally well behaved because they knew they did not want to be hit with the cane, however now-a-days kids misbehave at school because they know the teachers can't do anything about it really. I think thats kinda true.


My father has said the same thing, "Children abuse the law now. Back in my day, we'd hit you and be done with it. We can't do it here, because the law says, no, no, no. If we do, you'll call the social workers." (Actually, he is inaccurate here; the social workers don't give a rat's ass in the other states.)

Once we got past 1970s, all the psychological and docs stuff that resembles what the cat drug in just flew in and everyone tried to... revolutionize everything and rely on machines. They did this even with their punishments. Now they're kinder but it's less effective? And more people than ever were never meant to be parents at all? Funny how the world works.
Lab Assistant
#12 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 8:29 PM
I was always spanked (NOT abused.. Good Lord) when i did something really bad.. I don't feel abused or hate my parents because of it. In fact, its probably how i will raise my kids.
Scholar
Original Poster
#13 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 8:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nekochanpurr
I was always spanked (NOT abused.. Good Lord) when i did something really bad.. I don't feel abused or hate my parents because of it. In fact, its probably how i will raise my kids.


It depends on how bad your parents did it, as I've already stated. Compared to everyone else, ours were two steps away from being murderers. Maybe they just gave you a light rap on the head, as my grandparents did. Maybe they explained it to you. Maybe you really did do bad things. I was being too vague.

Good luck with raising your kids.
Lab Assistant
#14 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 8:39 PM
I was beat (for lack of a better word. I didn't get spanked technically) by my parents. I turned out fine :D

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Scholar
Original Poster
#15 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 8:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WCF
I was beat (for lack of a better word. I didn't get spanked technically) by my parents. I turned out fine :D


Good for you, but I don't know anything in the world about you.

1. Where do you live?
2. Are you a parent?
3. Why did they beat you?
4. When was this?
5. Why are you so vague about it? Smiling? "What's life experience to you? A father beating his child?"
Scholar
#16 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 8:45 PM
It should never be used to teach a kid something or control them. Its just teaches the kid to solve problems with violence.
My parents never believed in hitting kids to educate them they thought that was disgusting. So do I. My parents hit only a few times when they lose their temper.

My brother was ADHD-like when he was very young, and my mom lost control a few times. My mom however always regretted it. I have been hit once by my dad for a heated argument as a puber. We both regretted the whole thing later on a lot. Those are rare exceptions. Violence is bad but sometimes people explode out of frustration or are really fearing something bad. If it happens regularly or for educational purposes its no good. There are betters ways to teach children things.


"When the moon is in the seventh house
And Jupiter aligns with Mars
Then peace will guide the planets
And love will steer the stars"
Sim Princess in Pink
#17 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 8:48 PM
I think it makes a big difference when you become a parent to see things differently when it comes to smacking (I know everyone uses the word 'spanking' but I'm from the UK and spanking means something different here lol). When I was younger I never thought I would use that method on any children I have but sometimes it is the last and only option.

Please, Call Me Lou :D
Scholar
#18 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 8:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LouBarratt88
I think it makes a big difference when you become a parent to see things differently when it comes to smacking (I know everyone uses the word 'spanking' but I'm from the UK and spanking means something different here lol). When I was younger I never thought I would use that method on any children I have but sometimes it is the last and only option.

My parents are parents themselves.. they see it not that way. Those few times excepted. Me and my bro both turned out well without educational spanks, hits or other minor violences as education.


"When the moon is in the seventh house
And Jupiter aligns with Mars
Then peace will guide the planets
And love will steer the stars"
Sim Princess in Pink
#19 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 8:51 PM
I guess but everyone is different and some people such as myself have been bought up differently so its a bit harder to change the ways of a life time...Because I was smacked on my hand etc and knew myself that it was effective, I do this to my daughter when nothing else is working.

Please, Call Me Lou :D
Alchemist
#20 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 8:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by davious
What are the alternatives? "timeouts"? Those work. NOT.


I got one spanking/beating in my life. I thought I was bad enough to tell my mother to shut up when I was about 8 years old. She didn't do anything. She waited for my father to get home. Needless to say I never had to get another one. Youch!!!
Sim Princess in Pink
#21 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 8:55 PM Last edited by jhd1189 : 15th Sep 2009 at 4:30 AM. Reason: Merged posts: 2852349, 2852362
Quote:
Originally Posted by kennyinbmore
I got one spanking/beating in my life. I thought I was bad enough to tell my mother to shut up when I was about 8 years old. She didn't do anything. She waited for my father to get home. Needless to say I never had to get another one. Youch!!!


This is exactly what I mean...each individual child is different. Some will not except a 'Time out' or just a telling off, and like you said, you never did it again. I think after so many stories of these poor children being beaten to literal death that the law is looking at things a whole lot differently. But people must remember that smacking a child on the bottom and beating the crap out of them is two very different things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanito
It should never be used to teach a kid something or control them. Its just teaches the kid to solve problems with violence.


That is a statement I have to disagree strongly with. I was smacked as I have mentioned and I have never been violent in my life. Never been in a fight or anything. Someone I know had the sweetest parents ever who never smacked him and he is constantly being arrested for getting into fights. Its all to do with who the person is and how their brain works, not how they were bought up, not all the time anyway.

Please, Call Me Lou :D
Scholar
Original Poster
#22 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 9:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LouBarratt88
I guess but everyone is different and some people such as myself have been bought up differently so its a bit harder to change the ways of a life time...Because I was smacked on my hand etc and knew myself that it was effective, I do this to my daughter when nothing else is working.


This is how tradition works. People keep following and listening to what their parents had wanted and thought out because they know of no other way. All the good and bad keeps becoming passed down. In my family, we're different from most; your parents are supposed to be the ones you look up to and follow, but we're like Prince William and Charles (are those the late Princess Diana's sons names?)... they gave up, don't want wives or kids. Me and my sister gave up and basically found our own path. The rest of my family remains undaunted and many still live with or within close range of their parents (contrary to the American public's "18 and out!"). My aunts and cousins are still terrible parents and many do believe in a smack on the bum or slap in the face.

Many people are afraid to be different and try new things. When it's all they've ever known, you can't blame them.

At least you're not full-blown "SMACKSMACKSMACK!" like our parents. It seems like you're doing what my grandparents did; not harsh, but still enough to annoy and wake the kids up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kennyinbmore
I got one spanking/beating in my life. I thought I was bad enough to tell my mother to shut up when I was about 8 years old. She didn't do anything. She waited for my father to get home. Needless to say I never had to get another one. Youch!!!


This happened to me, except I was five. Ma got mad about me cutting up the bedsheets. Dad came home and beat the living shit out of me in the bathroom. Two weeks later, I did it again. Came home, called her stupid, and she got a big wooden stick with feathers attached to it (Asian style!) and beat me in a polo and skirt on the floor. I never learned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LouBarratt88
That is a statement I have to disagree strongly with. I was smacked as I have mentioned and I have never been violent in my life. Never been in a fight or anything. Someone I know had the sweetest parents ever who never smacked him and he is constantly being arrested for getting into fights. Its all to do with who the person is and how their brain works, not how they were bought up, not all the time anyway.


The kid might "inherit" the trait and beat their own kids, but I don't agree that a kid who has suffered violence at the hands of their parents is going to be a Charlie Manson. If anything, many tried to cover it up and be good kids to friends or at school.
Sim Princess in Pink
#23 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 9:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1ove
This is how tradition works. People keep following and listening to what their parents had wanted and thought out because they know of no other way. All the good and bad keeps becoming passed down. In my family, we're different from most; your parents are supposed to be the ones you look up to and follow, but we're like Prince William and Charles (are those the late Princess Diana's sons names?)... they gave up, don't want wives or kids. Me and my sister gave up and basically found our own path. The rest of my family remains undaunted and many still live with or within close range of their parents (contrary to the American public's "18 and out!"). My aunts and cousins are still terrible parents and many do believe in a smack on the bum or slap in the face.

Many people are afraid to be different and try new things. When it's all they've ever known, you can't blame them.

At least you're not full-blown "SMACKSMACKSMACK!" like our parents. It seems like you're doing what my grandparents did; not harsh, but still enough to annoy and wake the kids up.



This happened to me, except I was five. Ma got mad about me cutting up the bedsheets. Dad came home and beat the living shit out of me in the bathroom. Two weeks later, I did it again. Came home, called her stupid, and she got a big wooden stick with feathers attached to it (Asian style!) and beat me in a polo and skirt on the floor. I never learned.


Whoa!!! I'm nothing like that and know nobody like that!!! The thing is do you believe if they would have tried a different tactic you would have learned or would you not have listened either way??

Please, Call Me Lou :D
Undead Molten Llama
#24 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 9:08 PM
@ 1love: For me, I don't know that it's a "tradition" to spank. I made the decision based on what works. Within strict parameters, in my experience, spanking works. Random "SMACKSMACKSMACK," as you put it, doesn't work, but as part of a system that's consistent, non-arbitrary, and logical, it does, in my experience, work. So it's not "tradition" that I follow (I was not generally spanked when I was a child because I rarely got in trouble, not because my parents were anti-spanking), but what works and what worked for me. It doesn't mean my kids are perfect angels; they're not. But they do know right from wrong, as it pertains to the rules I've made, and they know that when they willingly do wrong, consequences happen. When they decide that they want to do something moreso than they fear the consequences of doing that they thing that they know breaks the rules, then I have to discipline, sometimes including spanking. But it's never random and the kids are never surprised. That's the key.

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Scholar
Original Poster
#25 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 9:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LouBarratt88
Whoa!!! I'm nothing like that and know nobody like that!!! The thing is do you believe if they would have tried a different tactic you would have learned or would you not have listened either way??


"Whoa" to what? The whole post?

I always wished they had tried something else. Unfortunately, they weren't that open. I guess I'll have to do it with my own children and see how it comes out, but I'm convinced there is definitely more than just one way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iCad
For me, I don't know that it's a "tradition" to spank. I made the decision based on what works. Within strict parameters, in my experience, spanking works. Random "SMACKSMACKSMACK," as you put it, doesn't work, but as part of a system that's consistent, non-arbitrary, and logical, it does, in my experience, work. So it's not "tradition" that I follow (I was not generally spanked when I was a child because I rarely got in trouble, not because my parents were anti-spanking), but what works and what worked for me. It doesn't mean my kids are perfect angels; they're not. But they do know right from wrong, as it pertains to the rules I've made, and they know that when they willingly do wrong, consequences happen. When they decide that they want to do something moreso than they fear the consequences of doing that they thing that they know breaks the rules, then I have to discipline, sometimes including spanking. But it's never random and the kids are never surprised. That's the key.


I'm glad you at least have that reasoning for it. You're not that harsh and won't catch them off guard for little things.
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